Het Grootste Geheim - Forum

[Starglider]

Zeer interessant verhaal over 9-11, in verband gebracht met goudroof, software infiltratie en div zakelijke schandalen en bewijzen voor betrokkenheid... Wel enigzins ingewikkeld, verdient enkele keren luisteren en/of lezen.

http://www.freewebs.com/abigsecret/Grove.html
= met uitgeschreven tekst

en/of

http://culhavoc.blogsome.com/2006/05/30/911-whistleblower-andrew-grove-comes-forward/
= oorspronkelijke link, 7 dagen geldig

[Starglider]

Point by point comments to the video "Loose Change". Not meant to debunk 911. Offers a number of good points (which doesn't mean I agree with all).

See http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/index.html

[Starglider]

911 The Israeli Connection: The Banned Fox News Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAoe26MaTew&search=fox%20news

Even journalists of FOX TV felt it was necessary to address this subject, although it got banned after all...

[Anahata]

bron:
http://www.ditkannietwaarzijn.nl/?p=130#comments

Ditkannietwaarzijn.nl gaat aan de tweede kamerverkiezingen meedoen.

Omdat de politiek zwijgt over 11 september, wil DKNWZ.nl aan de 2de kamerverkiezingen van 22 november deelnemen. Op die manier hebben we de mogelijkheid om een aantal belangrijke kwesties naar voren te brengen.

Om deel te nemen hebben we 30 handtekeningen per kiesdistrict nodig.
Nederland telt 19 kiesdistricten; de lijst vind je hier.

Woon je in 1 van de districten en wil je graag je handtekening zetten of zelfs een aantal mensen enthousiasmeren om hun handtekening te zetten?
Mail dan naar info@ditkannietwaarzijn.nl

Je zult op het gemeentehuis van je eigen woonplaats een ondersteuningsverklaring moeten tekenen. Dit kan alleen tussen 3 en 10 oktober 2006.

In alle gemeentehuizen in Nederland kun je in die bewuste week naar een ondersteuningsverklaring van ditkannietwaarzijn.nl vragen en ondertekenen.

Als je dit zeker van plan bent; mail ons dan! Op die manier kunnen we inventariseren hoeveel ondersteuningsverklaringen we per kiesdistrict ongeveer kunnen verwachten.

Er zullen dus tenminste 30 mensen per kiesdistrict naar hun plaatselijke gemeentehuis moeten gaan om een handtekening te zetten!

Standpunten;

1. Heropening onderzoek 9/11.
2. Stemcomputers met papieren print als bewijs.
3. Stop verdere aantasting privacy.
4. Bescherming klokkenluiders.
5. Echte inflatie correctie.


We zijn op zoek naar regio coördinatoren voor de volgende kiesdistricten;
-Friesland
-Flevoland
-Gelderland
-Noord-Holland ( Amsterdam uitgezonderd )
-Zuid-Holland
-Zeeland

Mail naar info@ditkannietwaarzijn.nl

[mOTiVe]

Uit een e-mail:
DaanSpeak interviewt live Rick Siegel
Details op de poster
Donderdag 3 augustus 2006
Vertoning van Siegels documentaire 911 Eyewitness Hoboken
http://www.daanspeak.com/AankondigingSiegel01.html

De vertoning van de documentaire en het interview dat daarna zal plaatsvinden is dus al heel gauw. Doe je best om zoveel mogelijk mensen op de hoogte te brengen van dit evenement. Stuur de poster aan websites, print 'm en hang 'm op, verzin een list; doe wat je kunt om bekendheid te geven aan deze bijzondere avond.

Email DaanSpeak
Mail me je tips of dringende vragen/opmerkingen.

Tot donderdag in Amsterdam,
Daan
_________________

[Starglider]

(zoals ook in een ander topic gepost:)

Uiteindelijk ben ik er toch min of meer van overtuigd dat de WTC 1 en 2 torens wel degelijk opgeblazen zijn, maar dan van boven naar beneden, precies zoals Jowenko (in de docu van Zembla) niet als mogelijkheid uitsluit, maar wat op zich wèl héél ongebruikelijk is...

Dat het ongebruikelijk is betekent nog niet dat het onmogelijk is... en deze operatie moet worden beschouwd als een soort "state of the art" o.i.d.

Wat voor mij uiteindelijk de doorslag geeft, na alle andere gegevens in overweging te hebben genomen, is de snelheid waarmee e.e.a. in elkaar is gestort. Het is inderdaad, zoals mensen als Hufschmid al zo lang beweren, iets abnormaals.

Hoe abnormaal het is is goed te zien in de volgende video (3 delen)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143212690219513043&q=911+mysteries+demolition
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-999558027849894376&q=911+mysteries+demolition
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1162851149755261569&q=911+mysteries+demolition
"911 Mysteries - Demolitions"


==============================

Een poosje terug keek ik ook nog eens naar de docu "In Plane Site", van Dave Von Kleist, en ik vindt dat dat toch echt nog steeds een uitstekende productie is, ook al hebben sommigen de makers beschuldigd van disinfo.

Voor zover ik kan nagaan is Von Kleist zo zorgvuldig mogelijk geweest, en hij heeft bijv. zelfs een extra stuk toegevoegd om bepaalde beweringen te rectifiëren (i.v.m. bepaalde rookwolken die toch niet van explosies afkomstig zouden zijn).

In die docu demonstreert vK onder meer goed dat er best wel degelijk een "pod" zou kunnen zijn geweest, onder het 2e vliegtuig dat zich in de torens heeft geboord.

Op basis van de fotos zou je nog kunnen veronderstellen dat er sprake is van een fotografische vervorming, maar om dezelfde vervorming op enkele seconden video-beelden te hebben, waarbij het vliegtuig geleidelijk in een andere hoek raakt, is toch wel erg stug, in dit geval.

Ook laat vK beelden zien die er toch behoorlijk ondubbelzinnig op wijzen dat het 2e vliegtuig een militair, grijs-gekleurd toestel was... Hoe makkelijk een mens daar overheen kan kijken...

Vind de video op
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22In+plane+site%22&hl=en

Groeten,
SG

[Starglider]

Below you can find the story of an ex-soldier who participated in the "exercises" of 9-11...

Most compromizing...

SG


=====================================

Source: http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php


Sergeant Lauro "LJ" Chavez, 9/11 Whistle Blower Speaks Out to the Editor of the Cincinnati Post


Thought I'd share this rant with all you Veterans - It kills me when
idiots don't do their homework...

Greetings Mr. White,

I felt it necessary to follow up to a recent story that
was published in Cincinnati Post. It was the 1 in 3 believe 9-11
conspiracy theory. I must admit that at first I was overwhelmed with
joy that our local paper was actually starting to have real journalism
and talk about real issues. Then I read the story and it was a total
debunk to make the actual people around the world who feel there was
something not right about 9-11, to look like over reacting
conspiracy theorists.

Im utterly outraged. My 9 year old daughter could have done more
research in this, as opposed to just trying to throw the publics ideas
and feelings out. Is this not what journalism is supposed to represent
- real issues? There have been many, many polls done in major cities
that actually ask people how they felt about the 9-11 tragedy. One
such poll is called the Zogby poll; which was offered in New York City.

Honestly I could care less what is done with this letter, but I feel
that I should speak my mind and Ill tell you some things that I have
not told many people at all. From 1995 till 2002 I was a Sergeant in
the United States Army. Not only this, but I was stationed at United
States Central Command, which is located at MacDill AFB in Tampa
Florida. I was on active duty when 9-11 happened. In the days prior to
the tragedies, we were involved in many exercises. Some of these
exercises included the scenarios of hijacked planes crashing into, our
building the world trade center, the White House, Sears Tower, and the
Pentagon. These drills or exercises as we called them, where
classified Top Secret. Having a Top Secret rated clearance I was
dumbfounded that they would ever push a training exercise above the
level of Secret. Over my 8 years in the Army, I had participated in
many exercises around the world, none of which were ever classified
over the Secret level.

Ill start by saying a few months prior it was announced by President
Bush that Dick Cheney would be heading up operations over NORAD our
North American Aerospace Defense Command. Along with many of my peers,
we were shocked. Over the years, if you research NORAD, it has always
been under the command of a Military officer. It was done this way
because the defense of this country has always been in the hands of
such. Prior to the months before 9-11 this was all of the sudden
changed. Like I said, if you research NORAD and the command structure
you will find that it was imposed long ago that the military should be
in control of the order to scramble planes in the defense of American
air space. For some strange reason, Bush changed this and gave that
power to a civilian person on his Staff team yes I know, very
interesting.

Back to the morning of 9-11; the command was busy with this training
exercise. We were instructed to bring all our gear in to prep for a
mock (staged) deployment to the Middle East. On the morning of 9-11 I
had been on base prepped and ready to go since about 0400am. During my
time at the base that morning, they were setting up barriers around
the command and placing gun posts on the roofs. When I questioned one
of the security officers about the machine gun and shoulder fired
rockets on the roof I was given the answer its a precaution for a
plane attempting to crash into this building.

So, I was standing in the SCIF (Secure Compartmented Information
Facility), which is basically this underground bunker command post for
USCENTCOM, when the first plane hit. We were watching the fly patterns
of all the planes on the aerospace grid. This contained not only all
commercial flights at the time, but all military flights, and fake
enemy planes that were supposedly put on there for the exercise. Many
of the planes sent to intercept the fake blips were scrambled from
Andrews which is an air defense AFB for the East Coast. They were sent
across the US and left very few planes to defend the capital. After
the first plane hit the tower we were all in disbelief. After the
initial shock was over, our questions were what are the odds this
could happen for real, during a training exercise thats covering the
same scenario? We were all at wits end. Then to top all of this off,
Cheney gave NORAD the order to stand down scrambling jets to
intercept. A few moments later tower 2 was hit. Only after the
Pentagon was hit, did he give the orders to scramble the jets to
intercept the plane bound for the White House.

All of this is very interesting to me it sickened me so that I left
the Army after coming back from an 8 month deployment to Afghanistan.
There were just too many questions that no one could answer, too many
things that did not make sense. How is it possible to have a training
exercise about planes hitting the WTC and then actually have planes
hit the WTC? This kind of thing just does not happen unless its
pre-planned. What reason would there be to have this type of exercise
on that morning, Ill tell you if you are placing fake planes all
over the north American aerospace grid then you have no way of
knowing which planes are real and which are fake. Then to thicken the
plot you put a civilian in charge of NORAD so that the military does
not have the power to initiate the order for jets to be scrambled to
intercept. If the military would have still commanded power over NORAD
they would have scrambled jets because they would have simply
followed the procedures that had been in place for this type of
situation for years and years and scrambled jets.

To delve even further, as Im standing there watching the towers
collapse, next to me is one of my good friends and a former commander
of the Army Corps of Engineers. He is a demolitions expert. He was
even more surprised than me. When the towers collapsed he kept saying
this isnt right, this isnt right. When I asked him what he was
talking about he told me that steel buildings dont fall down that
way. Even if they are struck by objects; he went on to say that in
theory if the top 10 floors were hit, then possibly just that part of
the building would fall over and off, but the rest would remain
standing. When I asked him, not understanding the implications of
demolitions, he told me that it looked as if they were brought down by
controlled demolitions. I was utterly amazed, but after he said that
it did sort of appear that way.

Ill tell you what gave this whole thing away was building 7. If
they would not have brought this building down, then they probably
could have gotten away with it all. It was the most amazing site I
have ever seen. Not only was it amazing, it bore reality to the truth
of the situation something was not right here. Now, Im going to
tell you all I have learned, but I urge anyone to just spend 1hr
reading about this incident on the internet and learning the facts.
There have been numerous scholars, numerous physicists that have
analyzed this over and over and over again. And they all come to the
same conclusion, something does not add up. Building 7 was never
directly hit by a plane. Now it was stated that a piece of one of the
towers fell onto the side of building 7 and caught one of the floors
on fire. A few moments later we all witnessed the most perfect example
of controlled demolitions to ever be caught on camera. It could not be
proved that building 7 fell due to fire. My friend and I standing
there in the SCIF watching in uninterruptible awe with all those other
military members; watching building 7 fall perfectly onto its
footprint; my friend stating that it was beautifully done.

We all knew then we all realized that this was not some group of
unorganized cave dwellers from Afghanistan orchestrating a perfect hit
on American soil. It was impossible. Shortly after the Pentagon was
struck I called my close friend that I went to Basic Training with.
All civilian lines were down and I had to contact him via STU which is
a black line classified phone system. He did not answer, but one of
his soldiers did. I asked if SGT Worthington was ok and he said yes. I
asked if the plane did severe damage and he told me I didnt see any
plane. Then when I finally got to speak to my friend, he started
acting strange saying he could not talk about the incident over this
line. He was shipped off overseas a few weeks later and I never to
this day have had the chance to speak with him.

The Pentagon crash tape was released a few months back after 5 years.
You need to watch that tape no where can you see a plane strike the
Pentagon. This is because it was not a plane. I cannot tell you
exactly what hit the Pentagon, but its unanimous; it was definitely
not a plane. I can assure you that there is more than one CCTV camera
around the Pentagon. On September 25, 4 days before my 25th birthday,
I deployed to Afghanistan. Over the 8months I was there I had never
seen one intelligent Afghani soldier. They were all tattered and
scrawny and could barely shoot their weapons straight. This does not
mean that there were not men that could fly a plane, but after what I
saw it was extremely hard to believe they could be taught to fly a
sophisticated piece of aeronautical equipment.

My point Mr. Editor is that I spent 8 months in combat watching my
brothers die in the name of Freedom. I killed, in the name of Freedom
and to this day my brothers are still being killed for this
illusionary war we call the War on Terror. Where the enemy has no face
where there is no clear objective. In this War, anyone with ill
thoughts toward this country can be defined as a terrorist. Well, I
guess that includes me in this group as well as everyone else who
questions the events of 911, because we all hold ill thoughts toward
the leadership of this country and I say the real terrorists in this
world sit right in the heart of its capital.

I have bled for this country and would do so again in a heart beat
but only to protect its people, the true Americans that live here. I
would never again offer my life under the leadership whose real goal
is oil and money. The same ones who staged the most perfect
illusionary tactic in our history that was a pretext to a war on
terror that would never again go away. Their goal was to scare the
American public into submission making it easier for the world powers
to do their evil and get away with it.

Now that may sound like a typical conspiracy theorist I guess, but how
many do you actually talk to? Im not here saying that Aliens came
down and used laser beams to bring the towers down or control the
planes that were flown; Im telling you as a sane, logical and
intelligent individual, something does not add up about this. Earlier
this year I was watching the Discovery channel. They have a PBS
program called Rebuilding America. This particular episode was about
the WTC building 7. They interviewed Larry Silverstein (the owner)
about building 7. He stated on national TV the following which is the
direct quote and can be found here: http://www.wtc7.net/pullit.html

I remember getting a call from the, ER, fire department commander,
telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain
the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the
smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull
and we watched the building collapse.

I actually have the program recorded and you are more than welcome to
come by my house and watch it. He actually stated this on national TV.
I was so amazed that I almost shat myself. I could not believe he
actually stated this on a nationally broadcasted TV program. You can
ask any person who has done controlled demolitions please interview
someone they will tell you it takes weeks of planning to do this. We
are expected to believe that this was facilitated and planned in a
matter of hours for building 7, while the damn thing was on fire you
have got to be kidding me. If that is not enough to make you believe
something was fishy well then nothing will ever do.

Since that time there have been numerous scholars, some of which have
actually been publicly broadcasted on CSPAN. The latest program was
called: Theories about 9-11. American Perspectives and you can watch
this (which I advise you do) per this link: Theories about 9-11
(American Perspectives) or you can go to www.c-span.org and look under
their video/audio section to find this title. Its an outstanding
video and encompasses the thoughts of not only the American public,
but also Dr Steven Jones from Brigham Young University a physics
professor that actually received a piece of the rubble from the WTC.
Not only does he profoundly agree that building 7 was a controlled
demolition he can prove it. After he analyzed the piece of debris
they found; there were large traces of sulfur and Thermite found. If
you did not know, Thermite is a chemical compound found in many
explosives including C4 which I have used many times in the Army. It
leaves a distinct smell and identifiable residue upon explosion. Dr
Jones found large traces of this from the rubble.

Sir, there are many things that I never wanted to know for one that
the government that is supposed to be caring for the American people
could be corrupt. This was the last thing that I ever wanted to be
true but its time we wake up and smell the bullshit because its
permeating throughout the American public and we are all starting to
realize whats really going on. If your news station actually did a
similar Zogby type poll here in Cincinnati, I think you would find
that a lot more than 1/3 of the people believe this. I know tons just
in this area.

I could literally write you 100 pages of truths that could prove that
9-11 was an inside job, but Id probably just be passed off as some
crazy conspiracy theorist. Instead I want to give you the tools to
look for yourself because the quest for wisdom is a journey we must
all take alone. So, to you I add the following links and if you just
spend a small portion of your day reading and watching some of this
footage, who knows you may wake up and stand along side the rest of us
in utter amazement.


Respectfully,

SGT Lauro Chavez
United States Central Command

Thanks to the Internet, one of the few freedoms we have left, these
truths can be sent to the public. Thank God we dont have to rely on
news media to get this information out to everyone!

This is only about a 10th of my list of sites. Enjoy; and when you are
sick with the truth of things, let me know and Ill buy you a beer to
ease your nerves.

Loose Change Volume 2
(An outstanding documentary done about 911 that includes news reports
and live footage of the tragedy and finds that some things are not
what they seem)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change


Official Pentagon Plane Crash Video
(You tell me where the plane is)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5658198482624505213


Silverstein saying we decided to pull the building
The collapse of building 7
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6455428412411043437&q=WTC+building+7

Another video of bldg 7
(In this you can see the widely noticeable crinkle that is common in
controlled demolitions)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9184329400593634920&q=wtc+7


Watch the following in sequence:

1. Showing the Thermite at work.
(In this video you can see the molten concrete and metal spewing out
of the WTC. This is what happens when a Thermite type explosive is
used to cut down steel pillars)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=545886459853896774&q=thermite

2. Then watch this video
(it shows the spot where the molten metal is coming out the same
spot where the building crinkles and collapses)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4763320529356355623&q=wtc+7





Misc Links for research:

http://www.911truth.org/

http://www.st911.org/

http://www.infowars.com/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/020806tapesintensify.htm

Zogby Poll Results
http://www.911truth.org/images/911TruthZogbyPollFinalReport.htm



As you can see, Im not your typical conspiracy theorist I
actually have a good job! I thought at first I might send you this
from an anonymous email address, but you know what now you know Im
not just some stupid kid.
Thanks for taking the time to read.

Respectfully,

Lauro "LJ" Chavez
Director of Information Security
Domin-8 Enterprise Solutions
513-492-5831
lchavez@domin-8.com
www.domin-8.com
As the guardians of technology; security shall be our shield and
vigilance our sword

[noZz]

[Starglider]

[noZz]

[noZz]

Wb de zgn freefall, mss kan jij deze even debunken en mij terug op het rechte pad brengen?
www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html
Ik zeg niet dat het iets bewijst, maar er staat toch veel interessants tussen veel van die zgn "smoking gun" topics.

Dat sommige (volgens prof Jones) WTC7 squibs beschadigingen zijn zie je bijna halverwege hier: www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm

-
Wat ik ook zou doen als ik "hen" was, is een paar methoden door mekaar gebruiken, wat heel simpel kan zijn. Maar hierdoor krijg je wel mekaar tegensprekende aanwijzingen en gezien men weet hoe graag de mens zwart/wit denkt en wil hebben dat ofwel de ene methode ofwel de andere gebruikt is om bv iets op te blazen, is dat een heerlijke taktiek. Zou ik zelf gebruiken mss

Over die Chavez hierboven ook net iets tegengekomen:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/09/newest-whistleblower.html
Ben ook altijd zeer wantrouwig tgo de zoveelste "whistleblower" die ineens durft naar buitenkomen...

[kaboem]

Nou ik zal dan maar zeggen hoe het echt ging,...
Het was Osama met z'n toverstok.
Die arme Bush wist nergens van allemaal.
Osama heeft iets met het getal 911.
Eerst die 2 torens op 911,...911 dagen later was ie met z'n toverstok in Spanje aan het klooien.
En zelfs in Nederland heeft ie Pim en Theo omgebracht 911 dagen na elkaar.
911 is Osama's kenmerk!!!!
Het was toch zo ongeveer gegaan Nozz?

[noZz]

Je begrijpt me opzettelijk niet goed, denk ik?

Als we akkoord zijn dat bv 90% der mensen geneigd is de officiële versie te papegaaien, dan kun je er vanop aan dat 90% der "conspiracy nuts" ook de conspiracy hype papegaaien.

Ipv *alle* info tot zich te nemen (dus ook de debunk), en dan hun eigen gedacht te vormen, zie je dat 90% nog steeds zonder nuancering dingen naroept uit films van 5 jaar geleden.

Als je nu de "debunkers" ook zomaar op één hoop gooit ben je ook goed zw/w bezig. Bij beide partijen zijn in de loop der tijden nuances naar boven gekomen, en dikwijls heel interessante. Als je die info gewoon niet eens weet of bekijkt dan ga je door mensen die dat wel kennen gewoon in nootjes gehakt worden, en dikwijls terecht ook. Dat is dan ook wat met één van onze leden op politics.be dikwijls gebeurt

Als je zo eens een jaartje afstand hebt genomen, zoals ik, dan zie je nog veel beter hoe 90% der "nuts" als kippen zonder kop in de roes van de hype meedrijft.

Ik ben zeker niet overgelopen hoor, en mijn conclusie over de daders zal wellicht nooit veranderen, maar mijn mening over allerlei is gelukkig wel een boel genuanceerder geworden, wat je alleen maar geloofwaardiger kan maken

Ik stond zelfs maar open voor debunk omwille van mijn gevoel over een aantal dingen, waar ik niet als kip zonder kop de hype wenste te volgen. Hun nuanceringen hebben mij dus niet omgeslagen, maar werden verdere bevestiging over mijn eigen twijfels.

[kaboem]

Vergeef me mijn sarcasme Nozz.
Ik kreeg de indruk dat je meer en meer in zee ging met de propaganda.
Ik had je niet goed begrepen, sorry.

[Starglider]

Even vooropgesteld: ik vind het prima om algemeen populaire anti-conspiracy opvattingen (zgn "holy cows") skeptisch te benaderen.

Als een mens niet constant dàtgene waar ie in denkt te geloven opnieuw, en opnieuw, en opnieuw, en nog eens, ter sprake stelt, dan moet het noodzakelijkerwijs vroeg of laat mis gaan.

Het enige dat telt is de "spirit" waarmee, de manier waarop de vragen gesteld worden...